...because we just don't have enough queer tribes here already...
this is the welcome text -
This tribe is open to anyone, with a few noteable exceptions that I'll get to, but the focus are male-to-female transexuals that, for one reason or another, find that they just don't fit in with what you might call "Mainstream Transexual Culture."
What could I possible mean by that? Unfortunately, it's only possible to explain myself through negatives. For instance, I don't like the gay bar scene. I don't 'perform' in shows where the transgendered nature of the performers is the focus. Really, the best thing I can say is "if you are, you know."
You are welcome here unless you plan on making your first message something like "I'm so horny where can I meet a t-girl ugh." There are other tribes here more than willing to accomodate you
-susan
this is the welcome text -
This tribe is open to anyone, with a few noteable exceptions that I'll get to, but the focus are male-to-female transexuals that, for one reason or another, find that they just don't fit in with what you might call "Mainstream Transexual Culture."
What could I possible mean by that? Unfortunately, it's only possible to explain myself through negatives. For instance, I don't like the gay bar scene. I don't 'perform' in shows where the transgendered nature of the performers is the focus. Really, the best thing I can say is "if you are, you know."
You are welcome here unless you plan on making your first message something like "I'm so horny where can I meet a t-girl ugh." There are other tribes here more than willing to accomodate you
-susan
posted by:
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Pittsburgh
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Re: atypical t-girl tribe
Fri, December 23, 2005 - 7:00 PM -
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Re: atypical t-girl tribe
Sat, December 24, 2005 - 1:43 AMHi Susan,
See my suggestion in the queer anarchists tribe about Club Wotever in the UK. An interesting and very queer space - it's mostly a club for queer women and FTMs but it's very welcoming and inclusive. And fun! People make a real effort to dress up. A friend of mine recently turned up in angel wings and a wolf mask... -
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Re: atypical t-girl tribe
Sat, December 24, 2005 - 3:44 AMum...
i looked at the website, there. i don't think you get it.
I'll quote from the main page here.
"Club Wotever likes:
Drag Kings, Butches, Trannifags, Trans women, FTM's, Femme Fatales, Transgendered gays, Queer Bois and..................
We like Parties, Performance, Club Nights..."
and now I'll quote from your message...
"it's mostly a club for queer women and FTMs but it's very welcoming and inclusive. And fun! People make a real effort to dress up..."
and now i just have to ask...did you even <b>read</b> my post?
-susan -
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Re: atypical t-girl tribe
Sat, December 24, 2005 - 4:42 AMI *did* most definitely read your post. I acknowledge that you are interested in alternative spaces for MTF trans women, and that I offered a pointed to a predominantly FTM trans space. However, it was more the attitude of the space that I thought you might find interesting, rather than the subject position of the majority of people who go there (which does, incidentally, include many trans women and other queer folk). This is a no attitude, fun, all-inclusive, polysexually flirtatious, but not overtly sexual space. I offered it as an example of an less than mainstream queer space and thought that you might get the parallels I was trying to offer. Obviously I did misunderstand your post!
Apologies...
Gavin -
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Re: atypical t-girl tribe
Sat, December 24, 2005 - 5:50 AMGavin, I just don't see that club there, from what they portray on their webpage anyway, as 'alternative' space. It looks to be right smack in the mainstream of transexual culture. When I look at that site, I see men with pink boas, people wearing Intentional Costumes (pigs noses, so forth), something called "Klub Fukk," "Dirty Santa," a whole section of the site that is specificly performance oriented...
This has nothing to do with, as you put it, "the subject position of the majority of people who go there" and -everything- to do with its cultural position.
It's almost a caricature of one of the transexual mainstreams, Gavin. I'm sure lots of people have lots of fun and more power to them if they do but it's -exactly- one of the scenes that i've created this tribe as an alternative to.
in case anyone's following this thread, this is the link to the site in question.
ingoinlondon.tripod.com/clubwotever/
I don't know, Gavin, maybe the website does a really terrible job of protraying what the group is all about. But I'm curious about how you can say it's not an overtly sexual space when the very first picture on the site consists of someone licking someone elses breast. And "Klub Fukk?"
As queer space, yes, maybe less than mainstream (but certainly in a major tributary.) As alternative mtf transexual space...no. It's almost the exact opposite of that.
-susan -
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Re: atypical t-girl tribe
Sat, December 24, 2005 - 6:16 AMOn one level maybe (in a UK context) this is the transexual mainstream, because there's pressure little else out there. And it is a more mainstream venture than when it started out a few years back, but...
The website does give a pretty good flavour of the club - still maintain those candy-covered breasts are flirtatious rather than full-on sexual (ie it's not a sex club - unlike the related Klub Fukk).
Perhaps you could elaborate exactly your vision of an alternative rtans space because you're right, from a British perspective, I really don't get it. -
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Re: atypical t-girl tribe
Sat, December 24, 2005 - 6:56 AMYou hit it right on the head, there, Gavin, when you said "there's precious little else out there." The precious little mostly includes support and discussion groups, at least here it does anyway.
As I said in my first post, I can only define what I'm talking about in terms of negatives. That's because, as far as I'm aware, it doesn't exist as yet. However, I'm convinced that I'm not the only mtf in the world that isn't interested in what currently passes for "our culture." It's very difficult to describe something that you can only perceive by the shape of the nothing where it isn't.
I've found that many mtfs who don't relate to mainstream transexual culture end up fading into one of the "straight" subcultures and, while that's fine, i believe that a seperate, transexual space is critical. First, though, we need to find each other and figure out what that space needs to be.
-susan -
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Re: atypical t-girl tribe
Sat, December 24, 2005 - 7:36 AMOf course, it *is* difficult to describe what's not there. But one of the reasons I set up this tribe was precisely to begin that process of collective utopian dreaming. I find it useful to work from the best of what exists (albeit on the margins of the mainstream, and usually self-organised in a DIY way) as well as critiquing the worst of the rest.
I knwo ypu've posted your appeal/question in other tribes, including queer anarchists, and I how my friend Brigit, who hangs out in that tribe will pick up on the thread.
In the meantime, I invite you to start dreaming out load here...
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