Rhizomatic queer space

topic posted Wed, August 24, 2005 - 8:21 AM by  Otter Insurg...
Anyone understand the work of Deleuze and Guattari enough to suggest how queer space(s) relate to their conceptual framework?
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    Re: Rhizomatic queer space

    Sun, August 28, 2005 - 1:12 AM
    i do...check out my dissertation as a book in a few years! ;-)
    • Re: Rhizomatic queer space

      Sat, September 3, 2005 - 3:55 AM
      any published papers out there in the mean time?

      having been at an academic conference all week and heard numerous papers (few, if any of them queer) drawing on Deleuzian concepts, there are some ideas perculating in my head - will post more as they come to the fore over the next few days....
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        Re: Rhizomatic queer space

        Sun, September 4, 2005 - 11:30 AM
        working on a paper at the moment for an art/activism conference. i analyze radical queer groups and their direct action tactics using D&G mixed with B&B (Benjamin and Brecht). i'll definitely share more as it emerges.

        xo!
        • Re: Rhizomatic queer space

          Mon, September 5, 2005 - 6:09 AM
          My doctorate is in geography - I'm about six months off finishing and just getting to grips with D&G, so I think that work will have to wait and be a post-doctoral development...
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          Re: Rhizomatic queer space

          Wed, December 21, 2005 - 11:08 AM
          so my presentation didn't go in the direction of queer rhizomatics at that conference, but the experience radically changed my life. but that's another story. so anyway, i've been reading tons of D/G (with more G than D) and here are some ideas i'm working on with regard to my dissertation.

          Some Thoughts on the Use of Rhizomatics for thinking/practicing Queer Kinship

          nodal point: i think that D/G are best thought of as providing tactics/strategies of thought-action rather than meta-theories.

          connection: they offer some of the most refreshing thinking about agency, politics, identities, social groups in space-time.

          preface-in-the-wrong-place: this is off the top of my head; the best i can offer at the moment while on holiday; a few thoughts on the queer uses of rhizomes.

          nodal point: to think of queer rhizomatics as the multiple connections of queer kinship--our different/differing relationships and socialities. we can, i think, include the variations in sexual partnerships, friendships, familial-type structures, etc. as ways in which we make connections that challenge/disrupt/sabotage in a virological way the MOLAR (Institutionaliz(ed)ing) structures such as MARRIAGE CEREMONIES and MARRIAGE LICENSES.

          connection: However, we cannot think of these Molar structur(es)izations as 100% purely molar organizing functions linked ONLY to fascist desires for the control of our bodies/minds/lives/identities/libidos.

          nodal point: if we understand molecular revolutions to be the mulitiplication of possible experiences/expressions of one's desires/identities that, cumulatively, disrupt the flow of the molar organ-izing of these experiences/expressions

          connection: then one could view the challenges to church/state relations as well as challenges to the State structure of granting social goods to married persons, as so many molecular revolutions against the organizing function of the State and Religious Institutions with regard to marriage (understood in its historical-material terms as specific machinic conduits of moral and economic power over/within/among bodies-pleasures).

          nodal point: BUT these virological disruptions of the molar institutions define and give value to certain kinship forms over others and, whether as intended or unintended consequences, foreclose/organ-ize forms of sociality over others so....

          connection: one might read groups and movements that support same-sex marriage as a disruption of the lines of power that disrupt but do not radically challenge them.

          nodal point: we can look for lines of flight that alter our thinking/experience of sociality. in other words, perhaps the line of flight would be the same as thinking the impossibility of sociality.

          connection: do we now need to get all Jean-Luc Nancy on each other and talk about being-singluar-plural rather than as BwOs? perhaps J-L N offers some ways of thinking difference about sociality; perhaps it's Judy Butler that can offer some help along the way.

          nodal point: is any one out there, is any group of folks out there experiences lines of flight with regard to sociality?
          and the points of connections shall continue with this thread......

          anyway, just current thoughts running through my head and out to my fingers....not a closing, but an extended opening.............
          ..........
          ..........
          • Re: Rhizomatic queer space

            Wed, December 21, 2005 - 11:24 AM
            Cool. Need to mull all that over for a while before offering any kind of vaguely intelligent response....

            One question though, that springs to mind immediately, how do you make Butler work productively with a D&G-ian ontology?
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              Re: Rhizomatic queer space

              Thu, December 22, 2005 - 12:22 PM
              good question. i know judy B. criticizes D/G (specifically D) for his "essentialist" concept of desire which he assumes is "naturally" radical and transgressive (his ontology). both she and Jonny-Luke Nancy boy challenge a substantive ontology so I use D/G as commentary on tactics/strategies only. if you read through my comments the nodal points and connections are like commentaries on political action and not agency. i'm working on the agency (ontology) question in the next few months when i will begin reading Judy's newest book on ethics.

              what do you think of Judith's work these days? i think i can square D/G's concepts of molar/molecular with Foucault's subject as effect of power/knowledge so that may be a way to think about JB's (non)ontology..............................................................
              • Re: Rhizomatic queer space

                Thu, December 22, 2005 - 12:44 PM
                have to admit that I'm far from up to speed with JB's work.

                I think Rosi Braidotti many have written a critique of Butler from a post-deleuzian perspective (I've certainly heard her give a paper that was less than sympathetic to Butler's recent work)...
  • Re: Rhizomatic queer space

    Thu, December 22, 2005 - 1:22 PM
    to the thread in general:

    I'm coming back to 1000 plateaus after letting it squat on my shelf for almost nine years since i last cracked it. I'm also thinking about opening my copies of 'anti oedipus' and 'difference and repitition.' i think i've made errors in my tactical approach to these books at other times that have more or less led to...well, to them sitting on my shelf for years.

    If you were able to start from scratch with D+G, how would you go about it? What order would you read the chapters in? Would you switch back and forth from one to another? Would you leave off those three at a certain point and read his Foucaut, Neitzche or Masochism? What would you put in your body from a nutritional and chemical standpoint while doing so? Would you read anybody else concurrently? What else would you do?

    I've gotten myself to the point where I only recognize the terms, so I'm as blank on them as I can be, barring lobotomy.

    thanks,

    -susan
    • Re: Rhizomatic queer space

      Thu, December 22, 2005 - 2:41 PM
      Friends who know the work far better than IO do always suggest reading the Geology of Morals chapter first. And who am I to argue with them.

      Another friend whose husband wrote (is writing?) his PhD on Deleuze, tells a story about getting stoned one night and typing out the first line of each paragraph of that chapter. She reckoned it made much more sense to her...

      (and Susan - thanks for chipping in on this thread and speaking up in this tribe - I was worried Jason and I might be scaring everyone off!!!)

      Gavin
      • Re: Rhizomatic queer space

        Thu, December 22, 2005 - 3:57 PM
        hah, well, let's face it, D+G are still pretty far outside the mainstream even in the hardcore philosophy geek zone. i've met half a dozen phiosophy majors here in pittsburgh and not -one- of them has ever even heard of d+g. this thread here is actually the first i've Ever Heard of anybody doing any serious scholarly work with their stuff.

        I'll try that trick with gom tonight. maybe i'll do that first, and then read the chapter itself.

        -susan
        • Re: Rhizomatic queer space

          Thu, December 22, 2005 - 4:49 PM
          good luck with it! I need to seriously getdown to reading D&G properly sometime soon, rather than (mostly) relying on second-hand interpretations and just dipping my toes into their books every now and then...
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            Re: Rhizomatic queer space

            Tue, December 27, 2005 - 7:31 AM
            same here. it's a great thread. im learning a lot from everyone on here. let's keep it all up. ive got to read another book this week and write a review for a journal so ill be back on here very soon.

            lovies,
            jason
            • Re: Rhizomatic queer space

              Fri, December 30, 2005 - 7:45 AM
              so i asked my 21 year old nephew who is a senior at UC Irvine and spent last year in france studying derida et al about deleuze and this is what he wrote back. you may already know this. i am trying to understand if the analogy with botany and rhizomes is fully accurate as i am not sure whether the nodes rhizomes have at which new growth can occur are randomly selected or what and this may be irrelevant to the subject of the analogy anyway but i got into a little side eddy there. so here's nephew's summary:

              ""Their most important books were written in two volumes and were written by the two of them (a fact they don't try to conceal). The overall title was "Capitalism and Schizophrenia" and the two books were "Anti-Oedipus" (1972) and "A Thousand Plateaus" (1980). The two volumes total some 500 or so pages but in short they critique psychoanalytical theory by relaxing the notion of Oedipus and it's relation to behavior.
              Basically they tend to shift the focus to an understanding of how desire works instead of limiting a certain behavioral tendency to the triad of "son-father-mother". That's pretty much what they talk about in Anti-Oedipus. In A Thousand Plateaus (this is where the work on rhizomes comes in), they write each chapter as a plateau that tackles a different idea. Here they are essentially trying to disrupt linear notions of reading a text and also notions of linearity in general. I haven't finished this one, but one thing that is important to remember, and this goes for Anti-Oedipus as well, is that their form (style of writing) is very important. That's the main thing that stuck out to me when I first started reading them. They have a very impassioned style of writing which I think makes their stuff really powerful. What you referred to as "rhizomatics" comes from the introduction to A Thousand Plateaus. In short, the essay attempts to conceive of progress or growth in a non-hierarchical way. He uses the example of the typical conception everyone has of a tree (something that grows upward) and argues that this mode of thinking is imprinted in our way of thinking about a lot of things
              - here he speaks of Chomsky's Tree Structure in Linguistic theory. He contrasts this top-bottom way of thinking with what he calls the idea of the "rhizome". A rhizome (which is essentially a root that grows outward in varied fashions) is here used as a symbol, or a new way of conceiving of power relations, desires, growth, change. He goes on to speak about the various aspects of a rhizome which distinguish it - something about it cutting outward and shooting off in all sorts of ways, breaking at one part and reconstituting itself in another. I really like the idea and the image of the rhizome is very aesthetically pleasing. You should read it, or at least the introduction which is very short. The only thing I know about Jean-Luc Nancy was that Derrida wrote a book called "Toucher Jean-Luc Nancy" which I've seen translated as "On Touching Jean-Luc Nancy". I think he and Derrida were good friends and in the copy of Liberation printed the day after Derrida's death, I think he wrote one of the obituaries. Besides what I already said, I think Deleuze went on to write some books on his own which were pretty influential in the realm of critical theory, one was called Difference and Repetition which is pretty good. Anti-Oedipus (brings out a lot of other themes regarding - schizophrenia, "the body without organs", deterritorialization, and of course, capitalism). But the intro that talks about rhizomes is pretty accessible as well.""

              So, i've got to absorb this and read abit. it seems to reflect from various philosphical currents. how does this apply to queer space and queer philosophy/theory? interesting thread here. i'' be back soon. well actually i am going away for a couple of weeks and will be very unable to communicate so it will most likely be towards the end of january. i am also intrigued by the Jean Luc Nancy book on Hegel.
              • Re: Rhizomatic queer space

                Fri, December 30, 2005 - 11:09 AM
                Thanks, Chris (and nephew). Maybe I should come clean, one of the things that was in the back of my mind when I posed the original question was whether it is fruitful to think of public sex sites (cruising grounds, for instance) as popping up rhizomatically. Ditto, more alternative, not-very-commercial queer sites, like faerie gatherings or wharehouse parties... Does that clarify the question a little?
                • Re: Rhizomatic queer space

                  Wed, January 4, 2006 - 12:26 PM
                  well, now that clarifies the question more directly and yes i have to agree that spaces morph constantly in their use. not just queerspace but all space. people and weather and time and everything else provide the forces to cause an efflorescence in a moment and then it is gone and a new one develops perhaps in the same place perhaps somewhere else, perhaps never again. i am reminded of an old club in NYC called the mine shaft. it was in the west village area now hip, the meatpacking district. the club was a ravers paradise in the late '70's and early 80's. but AIDS closed it because it was definitely not a safe sex haven. it was painted pink on the outside of all things. it remained empty for i think 20 years. it is now being morphed into a boutique for some fashion stuff. totally new use. Similarly, around the corner after that club closed another opened in an old warehouse building [at the time, now it is of course a trendy condo conversion] that was a leather/s&m club. that place closed [i'd say within the last 5 years]. more private parties are taking place in off beat spots all over the town. these are the wilder scenes while the bars continue to slough along with their usual comings and goings.

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